Why now and who gets paid?
Three buildings in downtown Joliet connected by skywalks to serve as a combination courthouse and justice center.
Joliet City Manager Thomas Thanas on Friday presented the City-County Advisory Committee with the idea on Friday.”We’d all like to tear it down and start all over. From the Herald Spew News.
I have to ask this” At what cost” will this little project cost us taxpayers when this is completed, how many over runs in cost will be added, who…?? will do this project and who will be getting kick backs in the form of campaign contributions. There is many of us that think that this little idea of Thomas Thanas is asinine and wasteful, We have a building that is soon to be Vacant Called the Silver Cross Hospital on Rt6 in Joliet on the East side which would be adequate to house Thanas’s idea yet the Joliet City Manager wants to add a combination courthouse and justice center, This bring a question to mind who’s property is up for sale and if so how much will this add to the projects price. Lets see First Midwest Bank must be bought and tore down and then a new building has to be built, the courthouse that was built with our tax dollars must be wasted again in tearing the court house down and more money must be thrown at this new project to build a new court house.
Will County Executive Larry Walsh and Circuit Judge Jerry Kinney said they believe there’s a general consensus among county officials
What about what us Tax payers want or does that not matter, this must be due to the open pocket book mentality of Thomas Thanas, Larry Walsh, Jerry Kinney and Charles Maher, I don’t know how much us Lowly worked underpaid tax payers can take, well at least the city formed a City-County Advisory Committee last year for the sake of both the county’s interests in creating more space and the city’s interest in preserving its role as the county seat. Preserving it’s role as the county seat.? When in fact the center of Will County is now the corner of Rt 6 and Walnut St on Joliets east side and the forming of a City-County Advisory Committee is just another way to tell tax payers they are to stupid to have an idea about how Joliet should be run.
They screwed up back in the 70s when they built the current courthouse. It is too small and smells like crap.
Damn JJ you get right to the point don’t you, I wonder what is the big push or is Thomas Thanas, Larry Walsh, Jerry Kinney and Charles Maher trying to leave a legacy at our expense. I read what was said and it makes me wonder also why was it said by BrandaDIPO “You’ll hear it all at one time,” he said, noting that the county should avoid repetitive meetings over a course of months.
Sounds like they want to get it steam rolled past the voters before to many people start asking questions.
So what happens under your proposal to move to Silver Cross? Downtown doesn’t survive without the courthouse. Everything here relies on the court and the people who work in it, around it or because of it. Moving the court district to another site pulls all that business out of downtown. If you’re unsympathetic to the lawyers at least think of the employees of the lawfirms, the corner stores, restaurants, bars, etc. that rely on the tremendous foot traffic created by the courthouse. All that is gone if the courts move from downtown, whether to Silver Cross or another site.
Even if you assume the businesses will travel with the courts, the downtown area becomes destitute. You will have an empty former courthouse too small for current court needs and too big for private investors. The jail will have to transport prisoners to an off site decreasing public safety. With the casino being the only source of income to the area the crime will increase significantly.
Downtown is the only place for the Will County court system. Since the first Midwest bank building is on the market and conveniently located across from the courthouse it is appropriate to research the three building system. The county already owns the Emco building so nothing left to research there.
So what is the cost? This cannot be answered without the research on present cost and the future cost of losing the downtown area compared to its current value. Put on your thinking cap.
I like reading this blog but sometimes your quick thinking answers to current problems are sophmoric at best. Join the research team and put your ideas to the test then write your opinion. At least then you will be informed.
Down Town Office,
I disagree with Jake, being that Joliet is the County seat and there are jobs created by the Court House in the downtown area, I think that it needs to stay in the downtown area. That being said if anyone looked at the downtown area it is already destitute. After “Business Hours” it turns into a ghost town with only drug addicts, alcoholics and punk kids roaming the streets but most probably don’t realize that because it seems they are part of the 4pm exodus. Most of the workers in the area like it for their convenience and spend little if any money there. While it is a nice convenience for the people of Plainfield, Shorewood and other towns whose workers come here to use our resources and earn an income that they then bring back to their communities, this does nothing for Joliet. As the amount of workers increase the City in all its’ infinite wisdom will raise our taxes to build more and larger parking areas and repave the already congested and over utilized streets while keeping those that use these spaces subsidized by not charging an adequate parking price to use these resources. I guess I can’t blame you though if the City of Joliet is stupid enough to not manage their resources properly why not take advantage of it.
I am sorry I feel JJ is right on the money with this one, I also feel that if the city wants to spend our tax dollars it should be brought up for a vote.
Mr. Cleary,
I agree that the downtown area turns into a ghost town after work but you see the same problem I do. With the city trying to improve the area and draw a night life outside of the casino they need the daytime base of the courthouse. Restaurants, bars, nightclubs, comedy clubs, retail shops, baseball parks, etc all need that daytime base to try to build a clientele for after hours business. In the meantime, the city is earning some income from the businesses that are making it right now. If the city can give an incentive for business to come in and succeed the outcome is greater for the city, and its citizens. The outcome for the city and its citizens is poor when the downtown area is left to rot.
I think we agree on this point, and a study is warranted for the time being. I suggest JJ and those who agree with him make your argument as to why Silver Cross hospital is a better place for the court system. Assume the city fails in its attempt to halt the move with the hospital board. Also assume for the instance that Thanas and the others mentioned are really trying to help the area and save the taxpayers money. Why is it better to move to Silver Cross?
I seriously don’t think those who are currently in elected positions are really worried so much about thriving economic diversity as much as they are about ingratiating themselves with those that hand outs are given to. My personal view is that if businesses can’t succeed without taxpayer derived incentives they should be allowed to fade into the failed business oblivion they deserve! As far as County Government infrastructure is concerned I would think that in most instances these same elected officials would like to see business conducted with those who have supported them in the past. I am in the process of checking on the reported campaign donations the various individuals involved in the idea have gained and from whom. I wouldn’t put it past anyone to gift a certain company or corporation for past donations. I would hope the County would tender a very reasonable offer in the taxpayers favor if this does get off the ground. Then again our government bodies are always willing to initiate an Eminent Domain ruling when it concerns the citizen, I wonder if it would be so willing in the case of a corporation?
As far as I’m concerned I think it would be much wiser investment to demolish the whole site and build a County Campus that would be upgradeable with future expansion in mind. Engineered properly the current site of the Court House would suffice and future upgrades and expansion beyond the site wouldn’t be necessary.
Downtown office
Cost is a huge factor. We as tax payers will need to know how much it will cost for this venture, this is what we as tax payers should except, If the lot where this structure is to be located is not suitable now what will make it suitable later if more expansion is needed to be done in the future, right now may provide a good opportunity for the county court house to be moved to an area that can handle expansion plus future expansion. Take time to look at these kinds of questions, not only what is here at this moment.
There will be many other questions that will need to be addressed as you decide our future direction. It is a chance for a new beginning, and new beginnings take thought and knowledge. Get the facts and weigh the options before you spend money.
Here is a chance to correct the situation.
“We don’t know what the population in Will County is going to do within the next 25 years, and it could grow a whole lot faster than we think at this point in time.” So with the limited area that is being suggested for Redevelopment, it seems to lacks the ability of any future expansion, if the population swelled enough to fill the new parking garages or parking area(s), the new courthouse would need to be expanded again as well. “We’d pretty much have to come back in and tear out everything in that event”
“Basically it is a philosophical issue,” whether you want to spend money today in the event of expanding something in the future, the question of whether that money is well spent or whether it should be put somewhere else is the real question.”
Will County could use a new court house, true. The current one maybe cramped and does not meet somebody’s standards, the old court house that was in the current courthouse’s place did not meet the standards also. Will county is intent on putting a wrecking ball to some fine Joliet real estate, so why not use Silvercross Hospital it has expandability, and if all goes well it will be vacant, so you suggest the tax payers be affected by this decision and they will be offered up as a sacrificial lamb so that a few little businesses be saved or is it the lawyers are afraid of change.
Here is what I ask…..
How much money should go to the courthouse project?
Is there Plans for future population growth potential?
What about the Flexibility in space usage – inside and outside?
Will there be Ease of access by citizens, the handicapped and etc?
What about Traffic safety and congestion, will the roadways be expanded to handle the extra traffic flow, plus with road expansion how many tax payers property be taken with the counties emanate domain?
Will there be if this new court house is built” A private place for attorneys and clients to talk?” So that sensitive information is not shared with everyone in the hallway with ears.
Don’t the jail and courthouse necessarily need to be connected, so if there is a connection then what about the railway that is in the way? will this cause problem for commuters?
Lets get technical for a moment what kind of record storage area will be in place and will the event of personal documentation become even more cost prohibitive, currently a copy costs you $3.00 for each copy. So what would court transcripts then cost the public when the county tries to recoup what it has spent, how much will court fees go up to afterward?
When the Malls opened up on Jefferson st and in Plainfield the down town area died there was many different businesses closed yet nobody wept for them, then the river boat came in and there was a hidden contention that this would bring business to downtown Joliet, guess what? It didn’t, gamblers don’t leave a machine to go 3 blocks away to eat, drink or do anything else for that matter they are there to gamble period.
Yet it is people like you that have only one direction in mind that wants to put a band aid on it and say it is a new thing, Well I hate to tell you and anyone that may agree with you on Rebuilding the Will County Court house, it is not just your tax dollars funding this, it is everyone’s taxes doing this, there needs to be a vote on this issue and not blanket permission to empty the County and city coffers to make this project happen.
There has to be account ability on this issue, Will County is competing with people who need their potholes filled, taxes reduced, a roof over there heads, and yet they want to take on this project when the issue is many other things need to be done. I am sorry to say many of my emailers which 3,260 do not agree and they are mad as hell.
If these local politicians want to commit political suicide then so be it. “We’re hearing from more people who want to pay for government a la carte” not all at once, so with that said I hope the Will County Residents want to vote on it instead of just saying “that’s what I elected them for.”
Move the court house to the Silver cross building, I think it is a great Idea, turn the old court house into a hotel or something.
The first question that needs an answer is, “do we need to expand/increase the current court system in Will County?” The answer is a simple yes.
Many people, people like you and me, are feeling this economic downfall. Most of us do not experience the court system on a regular basis, and, when we do, it is likely a petty traffic matter. This makes most citizens of Will County less concerned with the size and efficiency of the court system and return to ask the basic question of “how much?” There is not an easy answer to this. A study is proper for this quandry. Good for the people involved with the court system everyday for considering the best way to expand/increase the court system.
In the long run, an efficient and apportioned court house will save the citizens more money in taxes. It will also serve the people it is intended to serve in a better way. They don’t just convict criminals there. Real people with real issues go to court as the last bastion for resolution of thier conflict. Nobody wants to go to court but it is the only and last place for peaceful resolution. Therefore, it is crucial that the people be best served with an efficient and appropriately sized complex.
Now, Why is it better to move to Silver Cross? Do we put the bandaid on downtown or on Silver Cross? Do you have any study or proposal of cost for each project? We will pay for either situation.
As for the “few little businesses” and “lawyers afraid of change,” you quickly turn your back on their needs, desires, fears; and fall right into “how much is this going to cost me?” What if it costs you a little extra – are you willing to let the “few little businesses” and “lawyers afraid of change” deal with the fallout? The long term effect on your “cost” will increase. If you don’t like the current politicians vote against them. What do you expect the new politicians to do? I foresee the current or new popliticians conducting a study on the feasibility of the current courthouse expansion or moving out of downtown.
As for JJ, once again you have started a conversation worthy of having with mediocre thoughtfulness and a guttoral response against the politicains you dislike for being politicians. So the vote is here on your blog: do you want to pay a lot to expand the current system or do you want to pay a lot to move to another site? Do you want to save the “few little businesses” and “lawyers afraid of change,” or do you want to turn your back on them again?
Most importantly JJ, how much is this going to cost you, personally? It seems that it is you who has only one direction in mind and it falls directly on your pocketbook. Isn’t it worth the study to see how much it will effect your pocketbook?
I say JJ is right and this BOZO downtown office is just looking to maybe sell a building to the city or protect his job….But what do we know, we are nothing more then blogger miscreants to people like you, I am joe public my self and for you to come off like your some know it all pretetious butt kisser political pig, I say to you get a life…..
They suggest the Town should bear all structural renovation costs. Neither the extent of desired renovations nor the cost is known at this time, Have we consider all off the factors and opportunities in selecting sites for courthouses. No! I agree with JJ it is putting a bandaid on it, I have been doing some research since this idea was brought up and think it would be a great Idea….Research is the key.
“A joint committee from the city of Joliet and Will County is taking a serious look at the concept as it looks for answers to an overcrowded court system.”
“The committee’s chairman, Charles Maher, R-Naperville, said the concept is the best yet reviewed by city-county committee. But he cautioned that the county still needs to review all of its space needs and other options, including the potential of outlying satellite court facilities.” Herald News.
Hellen Ambrose, you are absolutely correct. Remove the bandaid and make sure the decision is well researched and the best for both Joliet and Will County. All taxpayers, even BOZOs like me, will benefit from strong research that includes a review of all of its space needs and other options, including the potential of outlying satellite court facilities.
This is exactly what the joint committe is doing. That is why JJ and the other quick thinkers fall apart. No one, not even anonymous posters, have answered the basic question of why Silver Cross is better. Lots of questions posed, but no answers. Let’s do it Hellen; let’s research the issue. Then we can make a proper decision. I encourage JJ and the others to do the same, maybe even propose answers why the joint committe is wrong.
Joe public anonymous posters will even benefit from research like ours, Hellen. Maybe Joe public can invest in the court system investigation and make a buck. Or, he can sit back, complain about those know nothing politicians, and wait to see if the taxes get reduced on some non-researched, knee jerk reaction to a serious problem. If only we get rid of all the politicians we can save money on their salaries, right?
Now, as to the know it all pretentious butt kisser political pig comment, at least I have put forth reasons for my statements. If you disagree fine, offer up a new solution based on reason. I love hearing peoples’ ideas and, at the very least, consider them to some point. And trust assured, I won’t respond in kind with thoughtless ridicule and name calling.
mediocre thoughtfulness and a guttoral response– with that kind of statement one would assume that there is a hint to an insult of ones intellegence….I see why JJ fires back…Both Ideas are good and maybye this Blog could help get something done and mabe we all can get this done..
It’s these sort of issues that can get overlooked when you don’t pay any heed to the local news sources. Thanas, a lawyer himself, is more than likely speaking from personal experience with the need to build a better courthouse. We can all agree that the need for one is there. However, with that being a county building one has to wonder where does the budget for such a project lie. Is it with the city since the land the building is on is within the city limits or is it with Larry Walsh and the county board to work up the budget for the proposed project? Sure, the courthouse and the law offices within the downtown business district bring in a lot of business but it’s not enough. Several attempts have been made to revive the downtown area away from something that is just the courthouse, the county offices, the library, the banks, law offices, the Rialto, Harris, a few title companies, Central, and the ball park and they failed. At one point, there was talk of bringing in a comedy club, several new restaurants, and offices. The offices and the nightclub made it but as a friend in the business told me the comedy club was backed well intentioned people who had no clue about the comedy business and it failed miserably.
What I believe they’re looking for is a way to help revitalize the downtown area while at the same time addressing a much needed issue. As some have said, it is a ghost town down there. The only time places like McBrodie’s is used after dark is when someone goes for a drink after they gamble or see a show at the Rialto or they go there for dinner before a show at the Rialto. The only reason people even use the downtown area after the courthouse and library are closed is either for a baseball game in the summer, a show at the Rialto, go to Harris, drink at McBrodie’s, or dance at the nightclub. Much more is being done far west of the downtown area that it’s being neglected.
Sure you have a quick solution with Silver Cross but is it cost effective and practical to renovate the building from a hospital into a courthouse? Is it worth the time and money to move all the offices and infrastructure of the Will County Courthouse east of its current location? There are many more answers that Larry Walsh and Tom Thanas need to give us and that’s what this upcoming meeting on Jun 6 will do. There has to be a reason Thanas believes what he was given when he became city manager when Mr. Mezrah retired for health reasons is right for both the city and the county.
love how all of these experts in construction management state that Silver Cross should simply add on to the existing facility like St Joe’s is doing. If you’ve ever walked around the present buildings and campus you would realize that a) what appears to be buildable land is actually flood plain and b) the present location is nothing but a bunch of additions pieced together in a not so user friendly manner. Simply slapping another addition on would only add to a mish-mosh where patients now have to be transported 200 yards from their rooms to get an X-ray, CT or MRI. Additionally, the technology required in todays healthcare industry was only a dream when most of the present buildings were constructed. When the main hospital building was built in the late 60’s, a computer was something that filled up a whole room. No one could forsee forty years ago, that things like computers would be just as important a tool in healthcare as a stethascope. Unfortunately, there is no way to get the needed technology to the patients in the present location where plaster and limestone walls are two feet thick in some places. The only feesible way to modernize the present location would be to tear it down and rebuild it, which incidently would be much more expensive than starting from scratch. Unlike when the Bears rebuilt Soldier Field, they don’t have another hospital they can move into for three or four years while their new home is being built. As far as the city of Joliet’s concern about the residents of the east side being abandoned, an urgent care facility will be maintained on the present site and though ambulance runs will take a couple of minutes longer from Joliet, the critical time that it takes for the ambulance to get to the patient will not. Though Joliet’s feelings seem to be hurt, they have to remenber that Silver Cross is not their hospital. Every one of their perceived negatives is a positive for the collective community’s over all health care.
Yes keeping the Joliet hospital and building a satellite campus with room for expansion out east is a great idea. The hospital out east could be a collaborative effort with many hospitals in the region so that the best possible plan is implemented for all, so moving the will county court house is a good idea.
That is very well thought out and I have to agree…Makes sence.
HERES AN IDEA ABOUT THE DOWN TOWN AREA GIVE IT TO THE BOAT TO MANAGE GET RID OF THAN ASS AND MIHALICK LET THE BOAT BRING IN A VEGAS STYLE DOWNTOWN LET THEM RUN THE BALL FEILD
Love that Idea…
I thought Mihalik was the ass….If Mihalik was a true ass, his farts would not be strong enough to offend anyone.